The Mad Latinist ([info]jdm314) wrote,
@ 2008-03-21 20:16:00
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Current mood: amused
Entry tags:alternate history, easter, good friday, holidays, holy week, maundy thursday, purim, thought experiment, ארור המן, ברוך מרדכי, עד דלא ידע

A thought experiment
This idea is entirely [info]grishnash's, but since he doesn't blog anymore he gave me permission to post it.

Purim just ended in my time zone (and walledness). This year Purim corresponded with Maundy Thursday (which commemorates the Last Supper and the giving of communion) and Good Friday (which commemorates the crucifixion).

Jesus died during Passover of course, and Easter is modeled on that Jewish holiday (in fact many languages don't even distinguish the two). So the Church went to great lengths to create a system whereby Easter (most of whose observers follow the Gregorian or Julian calendar) occurs at, or near the same time as Passover (whose date is determined based on the Jewish calendar). This system is very complicated, and has its share of bugs. This year Easter well before Passover, and lines up with Purim instead.

Given how much the timing of Jesus' death influenced Christianity, it's interesting to imagine how different things would have been if the "first Easter" had also fallen on Purim.

Discuss.

NOTE: Although I do allude to the Eastern Orthodox Church's use of the Julian calendar above, I did not think to point out that this means they don't have the same problem. Thanks to [info]tungol for calling my attention to this omission.


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[info]tungol
2008-03-22 01:50 am UTC (link)
I, and probably many other Christians, would say that the timing of Jesus' death was according to the plan of God, and so the idea that it might have coincided with Purim instead is kind of nonsensical.

But I suppose someone not working under the same assumptions could come up with some interesting alternative scenarios.

(Incidentally, as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I do not celebrate Easter (or Pascha, as we tend to call it, preserving the Passover connection in the name) this year until April 27th.)

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[info]jdm314
2008-03-22 02:06 am UTC (link)
I, and probably many other Christians, would say that the timing of Jesus' death was according to the plan of God, and so the idea that it might have coincided with Purim instead is kind of nonsensical.

That goes without saying of course. And Purim has never been anywhere near as important a holiday as Passover, so the idea is odd on multiple levels. But the weirdest thought experiments are often the most interesting ones, right?

I didn't realize you were Easter Orthodox. Which Patriarchate? I did make a point of mentioning the Julian calendar because of the Eastern Orthodox church.


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[info]tungol
2008-03-22 02:10 am UTC (link)
But the weirdest thought experiments are often the most interesting ones, right?
True.

I didn't realize you were Easter Orthodox.
Good typo for this post :-)
And, I only became Eastern Orthodox in January.

Which Patriarchate?
My parish belongs to the Orthodox Church in America (OCA), which has Russian roots but is now independent.

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[info]jdm314
2008-03-22 02:15 am UTC (link)
Good typo for this post :-)

I meant to do that ;)

(yeah right)

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[info]thecanuckguy
2008-03-22 02:32 am UTC (link)
Dammit but the Jews have all the fun! I mean here I thought we Christians were the more looser, anything-goes "sect of Judaism" (technically) / religion of the two, but then I read about Purim (a holiday that, to be honest I only knew was on the calendar somewhere and had its roots in the book of Esther). The Wikipedia link to the meal (containing all the revelries that go on in Purim to rival Mardi Gras) was especially fun reading. But you Jews are fun-a-minute folk! The party animals of the religions! Where do I sign up, I've already been snipped ...

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[info]spoothbrush
2008-03-22 05:14 pm UTC (link)
Even without using "Plan of God" logic, it isn't just a coincidence that the whole crucifixion dealio happened at Passover, though -- Passover was the only reason he was there in the first place. So asking "What if this had happened at Purim" is kind of like asking "What if McKinley had been shot in Buffalo, but not at the Pan-American exposition, just at a county fair?" If not for the expo, he wouldn't have been there in the first place.

Not sure why the McKinley assassination was the first incident that came to mind...

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[info]jdm314
2008-03-22 05:30 pm UTC (link)
Um, yes. That also goes without saying.

Man this is like doing stand-up for Vulcans. I should have just quoted some of the responses I've already gotten from Christian friends.

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[info]spoothbrush
2008-03-22 07:59 pm UTC (link)
I don't have much of a sense of humor right now. It's been a rough few weeks.

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[info]jdm314
2008-03-22 08:11 pm UTC (link)
Fair enough hope you're getting better.

Of course, another problem is that anyone who knows enough about Judaism and Christianity to "get it" is also unlikely to be amused. Purim may be an appropriate time to make religious jokes, but Easter, I suppose, is not.

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[info]beluosus
2008-03-23 11:57 am UTC (link)
I think all the Last Supper paintings would lack gravitas.

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